Special Guest Interview: Julia Maestas of Walk It Out Therapy
Today, we’re thrilled to feature an amazing conversation we had with Julia Maestas, the founder of Walk It Out Therapy, on the Sit and Stay podcast. Julia is a licensed marriage and family therapist with a fresh approach to mental health care that integrates movement into her therapeutic practice.
In our discussion, Julia shares her journey from a career in journalism and PR to becoming a mental health clinician and how she’s helping pioneer the concept of walking therapy. We delve into the transformative power of movement in therapy, the challenges and rewards of starting a private practice, and Julia's innovative strategies for engaging clients, particularly teens, through physically active sessions.
We hope you enjoy this inspiring conversation with Julia Maestas as she discusses her passion for helping others and the importance of bringing movement into the therapeutic process!
Parker Anderson: Welcome back to the Sit and Stay podcast brought to you by RipsyTech. I am one of your hosts, RipsyTech Product Manager Parker Anderson, and as always, I am joined by RipsyTech founder and CEO Tom Tarshis. Hi, Tom.
Thomas Tarshis: Hey Parker, nice to see you.
Parker Anderson: Always good to see you Tom. Today, we are joined by a very special guest. We have Julia Maestas of Walk It Out Therapy!
Julia is a licensed marriage and family therapist who received her Master's in Clinical Psychology from Azusa Pacific University. She brings a fresh and invigorating approach to therapy, seamlessly integrating her passion for movement into her practice.
At Walk It Out Therapy, she engages with her clients through walking sessions, utilizing the therapeutic power of movement to enhance her patients’ mental well-being. Her method not only uplifts the mood but also fosters a stronger sense of presence in relaxation making therapy a more engaging, physically active and healing experience. We're thrilled to have her share insights with us today. Welcome, Julia.
Julia Maestas: Thanks! Would you like to write part of my website that needs updating? That sounded fabulous. Thank you for having me.
Thomas Tarshis: Parker is very skilled at that and Julia, thanks so much for joining us, and before the podcast started, I was mentioning to Julia how at the clinics I founded, we used to have a clause in the office policies saying we have to take kids outside sometimes for the therapy sessions, and I've always found that to be a lot more fun and invigorating. And lots of times when therapy stalls, like getting movement rolling, really can fire up those sessions. And so I was really excited when Parker was telling me about your practice and what you've done Julia and so really happy to have you on and hear about yourself, and everything you’re doing.
Julia Maestas: Thank you!
Thomas Tarshis: Can you start by just telling us a little bit about: how did you take this path or get interested in being a mental health clinician?
Julia Maestas: Yes, I perhaps took a non-traditional route. When I went to undergrad, I had no idea what I wanted to do, so I majored in journalism because I always liked to write, and there was a little bit of public relations in there because my mom always said talking was one of my strong suits. So I said, “Okay, I could try that.”
So after graduating with those degrees, I tried working in the world of PR, and I moved back here to Los Angeles where I'm born and raised. And I quickly realized that it was not the pace, or… it just wasn't fulfilling. I wanted to help people and I, myself, had been in therapy since I was about 13 and, so I thought, “Why not try this field?”
I had a therapist who was very inspirational to me, and I admired her so much. And I thought, “How do I get to do what she does every day?” And, she didn't do walking therapy or anything, but I just really admired her and really looked up to her and still do, so I kind of picked her brain about “how do you go about becoming a therapist?” and then I applied to grad schools about two years after graduating undergrad.
So, it took me a little bit of time to realize it, but I'm so glad and grateful. I cannot imagine… you know, [people] say, “What other career might you have?” I have no idea. I love it, so I found myself in the right place.
Tom Tarshis: Very good. I don’t know about when you’re working with your teen or young adult clients, but I feel in general having a different experience after finishing college or trying some other things out, I always feel like it helps people land in the profession they really wanted by having that.
Julia Maestas: Yeah, totally. And I feel very grateful too to have parents that encouraged, “Go do an internship and see what you like.” I did not have to pigeon hole myself into any particular thing, so I really appreciate that about my parents.
Tom Tarshis: Very good. And then it looks like you work with teens to however old?
Julia Maestas: Yeah [laughs]. It’s 16 to 65, but that has been amended many times.
Tom Tarshis: When you started, did you start as walking therapy? Tell us how you were able to bring your passion into your therapy practice.
Julia Maestas: So when I was in grad school, I knew that I wanted to do private practice. I had no desire to do DMH work, and I know that sounds very spoiled, but that is not why I'm doing this. I want to connect one-on-one to people in my own practice much like my therapist I admired, and in grad school when I was doing some internships and going to school, [I was] busy.
And then, I didn't have time to connect with friends, but I realized if I called them and said, “Hey, I'm going for a walk after work. Do you want to come meet me?” They would join me, and I started really looking forward to that and recognizing this is such a great way to:
1. Decompress.
2. I feel like we're having very meaningful conversations in a non-distracted place.
Walking is free. It just felt like a really nice release at the end of each day, and I think my friends really liked it too. They weren’t exactly doing it on their own, but when I would call them and say let's go do this thing, they would join me.
And I learned [from] my internships [that were] not in the mental health field that I could not sit still in a desk all day. It was torture. So, I said, “How do I not sit all day and how do I get paid to talk to people?” So as I was doing that, I thought I want to walk and talk, and I remember telling one of my professors and she sort of poo pooed it, which made me be like, “Oh, watch. I'm gonna go do this.” So I'm grateful to her.
Then, I found a supervisor who was very willing to let me do this under his umbrella but incredibly independent also, so I said, “I have an idea. It's Walk It Out Therapy. I want to take my clients outside.” And he just said, “Okay, great,” and I'm so grateful to him for allowing me to just sort of start, and that was in 2015. And while I was doing that, I was doing a bunch of other stuff to get all my hours.
So it was very slow going at the onset, but I just knew that… and I feel very proud of myself that this was pre-COVID when people weren't thinking about getting outside. But I just knew that this was how I worked the best, so why wouldn't that work for others? And it started more with adults as well. And then it's more into me learning that I really enjoyed working with teenagers, and that they really benefit from getting the wiggles out and walking and sharing with me rather than staring face-to-face and being perhaps intimidated by somebody.
So yeah, it was kind of just a natural evolution, but when I get an idea in my head, I go with it.
Tom Tarshis: Yeah, and kudos to you for challenging the system. In training to be a licensed clinician of any type, you get a lot of supervisors that are very rigid, and there’s a lot of fear training in our field, and I think that even our policy to take kids outside, it's like, “What if they run away? What if they're kidnapped?” And it's a little bit of this… you know, statistically not really likely, so having the courage to just be logical about things, and sure, there could be a car chase, and we both get hit, but that could happen anyway.
So, it's nice you found a supervisor who was chill enough to not [discourage you]… and not surprised to hear that you would have had another supervisor that [thinks], “Well, that's not the way it's been done for 200 years. So why would you think about that?”
Julia Maestas: Yeah, right!? And I hope to emulate him one day. I am able to supervise. I haven’t stepped into that role too much yet, but I do want to take his approach of encouraging trying things.
Tom Tarshis: Very good. And then one thing we talk about a lot on the podcast is how in our training backgrounds for therapy, psychology, or medicine, there’s very little actual business training, and we like to ask people who’ve started their own private practice or even joined a group, how did you start your practice, and did you have a mentor to help with the business pieces? Did you just stumble through it like I did? What was your story?
Julia Maestas: Yes, thank you for shedding light on that, and it's been a minute since I've been in school, but I'm like, “Why don't they teach this business as part of [school] knowing that 50% of people are going to go on to have a private practice?” and I wouldn't consider myself an entrepreneur, but I guess those lemonade stands when I was 10 years-old paid off because here I am. But yeah, I stumbled through it. Totally. 100%.
I think my supervisor helped me a little bit. I would cold email other therapists in private practice around the area and asked to go get coffee and just say, “How do I do this?” So I got some feedback from them and then the good old internet. But I'm still learning, I feel. I was a sole proprietor for a long time and just in the last two years and now an S Corp and recognizing what all that paperwork entails. Yeah, there are forms that I’ve never even heard of.
And then getting a tax person... I mean it's like the whole rigmarole. So thank God for technology where there are platforms like yours where it helps streamline things, but like I said, I'm still learning.
Bookkeeping and just keeping track of all that and bank accounts… It’s a lot! And you’re not being paid for the time you’re spending building your business. That’s the thing.
I also have family members who are really good at Squarespace, so they help me with my website, and just trying to utilize people I know who have… not done private practice, but started their own something or other. So, it's a lot of talking to people, asking a lot of questions. I'm not afraid to ask questions. I always want to know someone else's experience: how they got to do what they got to do. So I'm happy to help anybody else coming up. Not that I'm the expert, but I do know a few things that I totally messed up along the way.
Tom Tarshis: Gotcha, and I’m super interested in asking this follow-up question about why you made the jump from sole proprietor to forming your S Corporation.
Julia Maestas: Well, I got the advice from my tax guy.
Tom Tarshis: [Nods affirmatively] Okay.
Julia Maestas: [Laughs] Thank God I was successful enough that I could make the jump to help me with my tax breaks, and another previous therapist that I had runs Pasadena Trauma Therapy in Pasadena. Cristina Mardirossian is amazing. I was emulating her practice in the sense of “she was this then she was this and she was this”. And she essentially has grown a lot, but she was telling me about sole proprietor to S Corp, and you can tell me if that’s a bad decision, but that’s where I’m at.
Tom Tarshis: No, it’s definitely the right decision. And again, I’m no expert either, but in general, as a sole proprietorship, you’re paying personal income tax levels on business taxes and as a corporation, there’s an overall lower tax rate. And there are some other benefits as well.
Julia Maestas: Yeah.
Tom Tarshis: And then sometimes people do that if you’re getting ready to bring on employees, and I don’t know if that’s in your future, or...
Julia Maestas: I thought about it. It’s definitely something I don’t know if I’m quite ready to do, but I am open and interested, and that would make it easier.
Tom Tarshis: I think Parker would agree with me that you give the energy of a great boss and mentor, so I’m sure people would love to come work with you.
Julia Maestas: Thank you. Yeah, I guess I get nervous thinking, “Okay, but do I have enough phone calls every week to hand you a client,” and say, “Go ahead!” Right? I feel that pressure to be responsible for their success and having enough to do.
Tom Tarshis: Understood, yeah. To that same credit of being a good boss and mentor, you have that same… the same [way] you want your employees to be well taken care of financially and in every other way, so it does bring that extra burden.
Julia Maestas: Right. But it's in the works, and I know if and when I do that, I'm gonna start again with emailing the people that have done this before and asking a million questions and figuring it all out. It's a constant learning process.
Tom Tarshis: It is. Then, we talked a lot about different regulations in our field, and Parker has this great question that he’s added to the list, which may be a little bit unique for your practice, but it's around… I can see the supervisors being paranoid about patient confidentiality if you're out in a public space walking, but tell us your thoughts about confidentiality and being in a public setting for performing therapy.
Julia Maestas: So in my consent form, I have a big chunk about confidentiality and saying that I cannot promise that somebody is not going to overhear our conversation. Of course, it's confidential between me and you and all that stuff, but I cannot control the elements. I intentionally pick a location to walk that is a bit less traffic, and people might be out walking their dogs or whatever, but you're really not stopping to chit chat with so-and-so. And everybody's agreed to it, [like] “We understand.” It, so far, has not been an issue.
Because I go to the same spot, some of the neighbors end up seeing me quite a bit, and one time this woman did come out and say, “I see you all the time. What are you doing?” And I was with a client at the time, and I was like, “Oh, I'm out walking. We're walking and talking,” and I did not go into it. I just kept going, and also I say to my clients too, “Hey, if somebody were to stop us or maybe you know somebody walking on the street, you can introduce me however you want. You can say this is my friend. You can say nothing. I don't care, we can play it off, or you can say, “This is my therapist.”
Actually, one time this girl did recognize a couple that was walking and said, “Oh, hi Mrs. So-and-so,” and she was just open with it. Now that I’m talking about it, I’m like “Oh, there have been experiences!”
There was one time where a high schooler, when I told her mom the neighborhood I walk in, she [told me] a lot of her friends live in that neighborhood. So with her, I did make an exception where we kind of pushed our location to a different place, so that she wouldn’t feel… I wouldn’t want to walk by my schoolmates house wondering if they’re home and wondering why I’m walking with a strange woman.
So it’s not been a real issue, but I definitely make it clear that that is something to consider if you are worried about somebody overhearing something. It can happen.
Tom Tarshis: No, and we have these HIPAA laws. I think a lot of it is overblown, especially among our youth. They’re sort of proud to be in therapy, and I really like your “You can introduce me however you want. As a friend, therapist,” and the idea that as a practitioner, somehow you’re going to get sued because you were out walking with the patient and someone overheard something is another “You’re going to be struck by lightning first” sort of scenario.
Julia Maestas: And too, the injury piece of it all. I put a thing in there too that [says] if you roll your ankle, I am not responsible for the sprained ankle that you might endure. The bee sting or… I'm not part of that. So there are those things again to consider and nobody's complained.
I also feel lucky to be in Southern California where I can do this year-round, but there have been a few times where we've been caught in torrential downpour, and I use it as an example of “Look! We're uncomfortable, and we're still moving. We're still here. We're talking, and it's okay to feel uncomfortable and to adapt to things that get thrown at you,” and we laugh about it. We're sopping wet, and it's a good time.
Or now where it's 100 degrees outside, so I try to push my walkers earlier or encourage them to bring water. But again, [that is] beyond my control, and luckily, everybody’s been chill with it.
Tom Tarshis: Very good.
Parker Anderson: So do you have a combination of patients that you do take on walks and those that you don’t?
Julia Maestas: Yes, I have virtual clients, which happen due to [the fact that] I'm in Southern California. If they're in Northern California or even in Santa Monica, it's too far to drive from here, [so] we do virtual. I don't have office space. I just work from home or at my walking location.
The other caveat is I work a lot with eating disorders, and if what they're experiencing is an eating disorder, they have to be medically cleared to be able to walk because we're not working out. This is not about exercise and a lot of them might use it that way.
Parker Anderson: I also had a question… Earlier, you mentioned COVID. I’m curious, how did you respond to that at that time? Were you still able to take clients on walks outside or was it primarily a virtual experience?
Julia Maestas: Yeah, so I think… I'm trying to think back. That first couple months where everyone was just freaked out, I think everything was just virtual. That's when I let go of some office space, and I said I don't really need it. And then I think we moved outside to walking with masks on and also just checking the temperature of “How do you feel about this?” But I would say it was maybe two or three months of no contact at all and then back to walking or virtual.
And I always say too, COVID really propelled my practice as well, which I think a lot of us experienced. And the virtual component opened me up to the whole state of California, which has been so lovely to expand in that way. And also gave me a nice break between walkers and virtual because I can't walk for eight hours a day, so it allows me to sit down in between.
So COVID, luckily, didn't have a huge impact, but I know that more therapists are now adopting this outside modality as of COVID, which is great.
Parker Anderson: You mentioned having a primary walking location. I’m curious, if you could pick any walking location to conduct therapy with your clients in the world, where would you like to go?
Julia Maestas: In the world… Wow. That’s a great question because I’m considering how populated is it… And because I do 50-minutes round trip. We’re not going point-to-point unless they want to. I’ve never considered that, but if they had someone to come pick them up I suppose… I do really love the ocean and the beach. The only trick is that I would have to live there, which wouldn’t be a problem, but I don’t know how to make that happen [laughs].
And then I also love huge trees. I’m thinking of the redwoods. That would be so cool as well. I don’t know, I’ll have to give that more thought because that’s a great question because I’m just like, “Which nice neighborhood am I going to walk in?” But walk anywhere in the world? I will consider [that].
Tom Tarshis: Very good. Great. And then Julia, one thing we like to ask our guests is… There’s a lot of… I think things are getting better, but in general, the state of mental health care in the US and world is pretty broken, and with your experience, if you could change one thing about the state of the mental health field, what would you like to change?
Julia Maestas: I feel like I’m part of the problem because not everybody can access my services because I wish insurance worked more collaboratively and more fairly with practitioners because I don’t take insurance, but I would happily do it if it made sense, and I wish it did because I understand that when people call, and they say, “Oh, you don't take insurance,” I am potentially losing a client because they want someone who does. That's fine, but I wish that there were some way it was easier and more streamlined for practitioners and insurance companies to work together.
Tom Tarshis: Yeah, and I would have to agree that the access and the… we’ve talked about this a lot on some of our other podcasts. There’s two big problems with insurance companies.
One is they tend to not reimburse properly and occasionally with a lot of years or so, maybe you find someone rational. Sometimes you can actually get a reasonable reimbursement rate.
But then the second piece, which we’re trying to address with our EHR is as you alluded to earlier, that there’s the time you work that you don’t get paid for, and if you accept insurance, and then the claim is denied, and you’re on the phone for an hour trying to get it fixed, that is a big flaw with current systems, and it’s just something that small groups or people don’t really have the time to deal with.
So things have gotten… I’ve been fighting with insurance since 2007. I’d say things are… maybe 20% tolerable then, maybe it’s 40% [now], but there’s still a long way to go. And I almost wonder… we do some government work, and I feel like there should be legislation. It's time to get legislation involved because 60% of mental health clinicians don't take insurance and almost everyone would if it was reasonable.
Julia Maestas: Yeah. Exactly. So that’s probably my biggest thing, and two just having mental health resources accessible for all populations obviously would be lovely.
Tom Tarshis: Agreed, agreed. On a more positive note, is there anything you’re excited about in the mental health field right now?
Julia Maestas: I guess I would say… As I just said with how there’s not a lot of accessibility, but I am also excited about how with all the virtual stuff happening that we are reaching broader audiences, and people in a 500 population town can get therapy because they can do it virtually, so I think that is really cool.
Again, being someone that works with eating disorders, I’m glad there’s more talk about it, especially with social media and all this stuff, but I hope that it continues in that trajectory going forward and just that more clinicians even have more training and experience and knowledge in that department because I feel like it's underrepresented.
Tom Tarshis: Yeah, there’s been a few eating disorder treatment centers in Northern California that have closed, and at least one of them has some Southern California branches also. It’s another [thing] where if you’re a parent or a teen with an eating disorder, you’re usually desperate to get help.
Julia Maestas: Yeah, totally, and when you talk about residential or PHP programs, there’s so many waitlists and qualifications that you have to meet in order to even be accepted to go to these places. And then once you're there, then it's like what's your follow-up treatment? What therapists are you gonna see outside of this facility that is going to continue your care? And yeah, it's a lot, and it's confusing especially for parents to navigate: “What? What does my child need?”
So, yeah, I hope there just continues to be more conversation and accessibility too in that eating disorder space.
Tom Tarshis: Very good. And then as we’re coming to the close of our questions, we also like to ask: is there something in the mental health field that you’d like to shed more light on or, in your work with your unique practice, anything that you can share with our guests that could be useful information for them?
Julia Maestas: Yeah, I think along the lines of walking and talking is movement and how important [it is], and again, I'm not saying movement like working out and running a race, but just movement. Moving energy through your body. The bilateral stimulation of walking right-left right-left. It really relaxes you and unsticks you.
To your point earlier about the kids who are like, “Oh, we’re stalled. What do we do?” Just that movement gets things going, so I would say take a walk. I don't know. If you have a client that you talk to on the phone, walk with them and talk with them. Just try something different or call your friend and go for a walk and see what different type of conversation you have as opposed to sitting in a coffee shop.
So I’d say movement, and then again just with eating disorders, I would love for there to be more education and knowledge around that, and that not everybody’s diagnosing themselves off of TikTok. But yeah, overall, movement just as a means of calming your nervous system and regulating, and it’s a simple, free way to just check in with yourself.
Parker Anderson: And I think that’s great advice, especially for the therapeutic profession, since most providers are sitting down eight hours a day to see their patients, especially with telehealth, it might be the same deal. So I think that’s great advice. I mean, even the name of our podcast is Sit and Stay because that’s what you do when you see a therapist, but I would encourage anybody listening right now, maybe stand and leave instead.
All: [Laughs]
Julia Maestas: Yeah, you totally [have] got to sit and stay for a little bit, and then get up and go for a little bit as well. That’s funny.
Tom Tarshis: Yeah, good comment Parker. Although, we’re playing on our dog mascot a little bit with our [podcast name].
Julia Maestas: I know, I heard that was your doggy. That’s so cute!
Tom Tarshis: Well actually, most people are probably active if they’re listening to the podcast, or we’d like to think that.
Julia Maestas: Yeah, that’s true. I mean, I listen to podcasts, I guess I’m still sitting in the car, but I’m on the move or walking or whatever. But yeah. Just kind of making a mental note to do that a little bit more.
Tom Tarshis: Very good. Well Julia, I love so much what you’re doing, and I can’t thank you enough for your time to be a guest, and if you are interested in taking those next steps with employees, or have questions about marketing or anything like that, happy to share whatever knowledge I’ve accumulated over these years.
And, I could see what you’re doing being really big, and I would love to see… We’re cracking the edge on some research in the area of exercise and therapy. There’s a lot being done with yoga, but I don’t know if there’s any studies on just outcomes with walking with your patients, and logically, I’m sure it is getting patients better faster.
Julia Maestas: Thank you. I’ll definitely take you up on that and pick your brain when I’m ready to expand.
Tom Tarshis: Very good.
Parker Anderson: Excellent.
Julia Maestas: And thank you for having me!
Parker Anderson: Yeah! And where can the listeners find you if they’d like to learn more about you?
Julia Maestas: They can find me through my website: walkitouttherapy.com. And then on there, you can send me a contact form, and let me know if you’re interested for therapy, or if you’re a practitioner wanting to know a little bit more, we can go from there.
Parker Anderson: Excellent. Well, Julia it’s been great having you and thank you, listeners, for joining us on this week’s episode of the Sit and Stay podcast, brought to you by RipsyTech.
If you have any questions you’d like to submit to our audience Q&A or are interested in featuring as a guest on the show, send us an email at sitandstay@ripsytech.com. All right, it’s been great. See you both later.
Julia Maestas: Awesome, thanks!
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Stay tuned for more insight and stories in next week’s blog post!
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